Spell combat in confined spaces, are there penalties?Magus spell combat & spell combat maneuvres revisitedCan Magus change their grip on their sword during spell combat as a free action?Can someone help me optimize (or at least, make sure I don't hobble) a gunslinger/magus for PFS play?Magus question: Combining spell strike and spell combatMagus Spellstrike, Spell Combat and Quicken SpellMagus (Card Caster) and Spell Combat/SpellstrikePathfinder Magus Spellstrike + Spell CombatDimension Door and Spell CombatSpell Combat with a held charge vs casting a spellAre 0-Level Spell Scars Free?

Why restrict private health insurance?

How to install "rounded" brake pads

Does an unused member variable take up memory?

I am the person who abides by rules but breaks the rules . Who am I

An Undercover Army

Is there a logarithm base for which the logarithm becomes an identity function?

Should I file my taxes? No income, unemployed, but paid 2k in student loan interest

Cycles on the torus

Should I apply for my boss's promotion?

After Brexit, will the EU recognize British passports that are valid for more than ten years?

How to distinguish easily different soldier of ww2?

Giving a career talk in my old university, how prominently should I tell students my salary?

What is Tony Stark injecting into himself in Iron Man 3?

Should we avoid writing fiction about historical events without extensive research?

What does it take to become a wilderness skills guide as a business?

Does the US political system, in principle, allow for a no-party system?

Having the player face themselves after the mid-game

Was it really inappropriate to write a pull request for the company I interviewed with?

A vote on the Brexit backstop

Who has more? Ireland or Iceland?

What do you call someone who likes to pick fights?

ESPP--any reason not to go all in?

Is this Paypal Github SDK reference really a dangerous site?

Tabular environment - text vertically positions itself by bottom of tikz picture in adjacent cell



Spell combat in confined spaces, are there penalties?


Magus spell combat & spell combat maneuvres revisitedCan Magus change their grip on their sword during spell combat as a free action?Can someone help me optimize (or at least, make sure I don't hobble) a gunslinger/magus for PFS play?Magus question: Combining spell strike and spell combatMagus Spellstrike, Spell Combat and Quicken SpellMagus (Card Caster) and Spell Combat/SpellstrikePathfinder Magus Spellstrike + Spell CombatDimension Door and Spell CombatSpell Combat with a held charge vs casting a spellAre 0-Level Spell Scars Free?













2












$begingroup$


I've got a Brute Vigilante who also enjoys taking an Enlarge Person potion now and then (we've ruled that the brute ability is not magical and can stack with the magical enlargement).



I've read and implemented the rules on squeezing, but that doesn't deter him (and that's fine), he enjoys being The Hulk.



Now, the problem arises when the spellcaster, a magus, needs to get through to join the combat and cast a spell. I've implemented squeezing constraints on the combat (-4 to AC, -4 to hit), which also means the Magus' turn cannot end in the same square as the Brute (a pain for the magus as this would make Spellstrike more effective/easier). The question then is, can the magus squeeze into a shared space (with a 5-foot step) and use spell combat?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    2












    $begingroup$


    I've got a Brute Vigilante who also enjoys taking an Enlarge Person potion now and then (we've ruled that the brute ability is not magical and can stack with the magical enlargement).



    I've read and implemented the rules on squeezing, but that doesn't deter him (and that's fine), he enjoys being The Hulk.



    Now, the problem arises when the spellcaster, a magus, needs to get through to join the combat and cast a spell. I've implemented squeezing constraints on the combat (-4 to AC, -4 to hit), which also means the Magus' turn cannot end in the same square as the Brute (a pain for the magus as this would make Spellstrike more effective/easier). The question then is, can the magus squeeze into a shared space (with a 5-foot step) and use spell combat?










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      I've got a Brute Vigilante who also enjoys taking an Enlarge Person potion now and then (we've ruled that the brute ability is not magical and can stack with the magical enlargement).



      I've read and implemented the rules on squeezing, but that doesn't deter him (and that's fine), he enjoys being The Hulk.



      Now, the problem arises when the spellcaster, a magus, needs to get through to join the combat and cast a spell. I've implemented squeezing constraints on the combat (-4 to AC, -4 to hit), which also means the Magus' turn cannot end in the same square as the Brute (a pain for the magus as this would make Spellstrike more effective/easier). The question then is, can the magus squeeze into a shared space (with a 5-foot step) and use spell combat?










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I've got a Brute Vigilante who also enjoys taking an Enlarge Person potion now and then (we've ruled that the brute ability is not magical and can stack with the magical enlargement).



      I've read and implemented the rules on squeezing, but that doesn't deter him (and that's fine), he enjoys being The Hulk.



      Now, the problem arises when the spellcaster, a magus, needs to get through to join the combat and cast a spell. I've implemented squeezing constraints on the combat (-4 to AC, -4 to hit), which also means the Magus' turn cannot end in the same square as the Brute (a pain for the magus as this would make Spellstrike more effective/easier). The question then is, can the magus squeeze into a shared space (with a 5-foot step) and use spell combat?







      pathfinder combat weapons magus terrain






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 15 hours ago







      TigerDM

















      asked 15 hours ago









      TigerDMTigerDM

      838211




      838211




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          3












          $begingroup$

          If the typical Medium magus wants to occupy a square currently occupied by the typical Huge vigilante, then the vigilante must somehow vacate that square



          On Moving through a Square on Friend says, "You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character…" (emphasis mine), and on Ending Your Movement says, "You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless." An exception is made for a Very Small Creature that says, "A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square" (emphasis mine), but this likely doesn't apply here. Add to these points the rules on Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller that says




          Any creature can move [not into and but only] through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself. A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is.




          With all this in mind, there's just no way—even if squeezing (see Terrain and Obstacles for more)—for the typical Medium magus (or other typical Medium creature) to occupy a square that's also occupied by the typical Huge vigilante (or other typical Huge, Large, Medium, or Small creature). (A normally Small magus that was the subject of a reduce person spell could also occupy a square occupied by a currently Huge vigilante, though, but that's a long way to go.)



          So the typical Medium magus can't move into and remain in a square occupied the typical Huge vigilante; the vigilante must first exit that square somehow. The vigilante can exit the square by squeezing, but no amount of squeezing on the part of the magus's changes the magus's size category, and squeezing alone certainly can't diminish the magus's size by the two categories necessary to render him virtually Tiny!



          In short, get a Tiny or littler magus, find an exception that allows what you want (a belt of the weasel may help), make a house rule, or tell the big guy, "Suck in you gut!" The normal rules—sadly—just don't allow what the question describes.



          Just a heads-up: Multiple size increases



          Your table's ruling that the size increase of the extraordinary ability brute form of the brute archetype vigilante is nonmagical is accurate: that size change effect is an extraordinary ability rather than spell-like or supernatural, and, therefore, an enlarge person spell cast on the brute vigilante in brute form should—according to the Pathfinder treeware—have its normal effect and make the vigilante bigger. The enlarge person spell says, "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack" (emphasis mine). (Further, only "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell," and, to be clear, neither the brute form effect nor the enlarge person spell is tied to the polymorph subschool.) However, there's also this FAQ exchange:




          Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

          As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies.…




          That these mysterious and sweeping general "rules on size changes" don't actually exist except in this FAQ entry may be (although, in this reader's opinion, shouldn't be) beside the point: While your table can do whatever it wants—so far as I'm aware, Paizo has yet to create a secret police force—, your buddy may not be able to do that (Medium humanoid + brute form + enlarge person = Huge size) thing in another GM's campaign, no matter what the extraordinary ability brute form and the spell enlarge person say.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Interesting--thank you! I'll have a chat with the player, but since I've allowed it thus far, it would be unfair to pull the rug out from under him (and he oh so enjoys being The Hulk [and I might mention so do the other players]). As it is, nothing says stealth like a Huge Zombie Dwarf rampaging around Korvosa, so...his suvivability might help me out before I have to make a severe ruling ;)
            $endgroup$
            – TigerDM
            11 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @TigerDM O, if we're talking about the question, I agree that it kind of sucks to have to change this ruling now (presumably at low levels) when only he is benefiting from it, but the player'll likely come to appreciate the ruling at higher levels when Large and bigger foes routinely block the way of their littler minions! If we're talking about the Heads-up, yeah, I'd probably let it stand. That's a lot of resources to devote to getting that big; let the player enjoy it but warn him if he's headed to a Society game or something that it may not fly.
            $endgroup$
            – Hey I Can Chan
            11 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            If the magus was large, because a large creature only occupies 2 squares when squeezing, they can end their movement while squeezing.
            $endgroup$
            – Wyrmwood
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Wyrmwood Perhaps I misunderstood—it was all I could do when composing this answer not to confuse the magus and the vigilante—, but, yes, certainly the magus can end his movement while squeezing but—unless I'm missing something?—that still doesn't let the magus share squares with the vigilante.
            $endgroup$
            – Hey I Can Chan
            6 hours ago


















          2












          $begingroup$

          No



          If I understand the question correctly, the Magus still ends up in the Vigilante's space. And as you said yourself:




          A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can't end its movement in an occupied square.




          It is also implied that squeezing always happens during movement, which means the player cannot stand still and take an action.



          Although you could rule that as long as the Magus can move outside of the Vigilante's space after the action, it is able to anything while in its space. Although, that is entirely up to DM Fiat.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          SlimeBolt is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$












            Your Answer





            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
            );
            );
            , "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "122"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );













            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142727%2fspell-combat-in-confined-spaces-are-there-penalties%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            3












            $begingroup$

            If the typical Medium magus wants to occupy a square currently occupied by the typical Huge vigilante, then the vigilante must somehow vacate that square



            On Moving through a Square on Friend says, "You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character…" (emphasis mine), and on Ending Your Movement says, "You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless." An exception is made for a Very Small Creature that says, "A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square" (emphasis mine), but this likely doesn't apply here. Add to these points the rules on Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller that says




            Any creature can move [not into and but only] through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself. A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is.




            With all this in mind, there's just no way—even if squeezing (see Terrain and Obstacles for more)—for the typical Medium magus (or other typical Medium creature) to occupy a square that's also occupied by the typical Huge vigilante (or other typical Huge, Large, Medium, or Small creature). (A normally Small magus that was the subject of a reduce person spell could also occupy a square occupied by a currently Huge vigilante, though, but that's a long way to go.)



            So the typical Medium magus can't move into and remain in a square occupied the typical Huge vigilante; the vigilante must first exit that square somehow. The vigilante can exit the square by squeezing, but no amount of squeezing on the part of the magus's changes the magus's size category, and squeezing alone certainly can't diminish the magus's size by the two categories necessary to render him virtually Tiny!



            In short, get a Tiny or littler magus, find an exception that allows what you want (a belt of the weasel may help), make a house rule, or tell the big guy, "Suck in you gut!" The normal rules—sadly—just don't allow what the question describes.



            Just a heads-up: Multiple size increases



            Your table's ruling that the size increase of the extraordinary ability brute form of the brute archetype vigilante is nonmagical is accurate: that size change effect is an extraordinary ability rather than spell-like or supernatural, and, therefore, an enlarge person spell cast on the brute vigilante in brute form should—according to the Pathfinder treeware—have its normal effect and make the vigilante bigger. The enlarge person spell says, "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack" (emphasis mine). (Further, only "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell," and, to be clear, neither the brute form effect nor the enlarge person spell is tied to the polymorph subschool.) However, there's also this FAQ exchange:




            Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

            As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies.…




            That these mysterious and sweeping general "rules on size changes" don't actually exist except in this FAQ entry may be (although, in this reader's opinion, shouldn't be) beside the point: While your table can do whatever it wants—so far as I'm aware, Paizo has yet to create a secret police force—, your buddy may not be able to do that (Medium humanoid + brute form + enlarge person = Huge size) thing in another GM's campaign, no matter what the extraordinary ability brute form and the spell enlarge person say.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Interesting--thank you! I'll have a chat with the player, but since I've allowed it thus far, it would be unfair to pull the rug out from under him (and he oh so enjoys being The Hulk [and I might mention so do the other players]). As it is, nothing says stealth like a Huge Zombie Dwarf rampaging around Korvosa, so...his suvivability might help me out before I have to make a severe ruling ;)
              $endgroup$
              – TigerDM
              11 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @TigerDM O, if we're talking about the question, I agree that it kind of sucks to have to change this ruling now (presumably at low levels) when only he is benefiting from it, but the player'll likely come to appreciate the ruling at higher levels when Large and bigger foes routinely block the way of their littler minions! If we're talking about the Heads-up, yeah, I'd probably let it stand. That's a lot of resources to devote to getting that big; let the player enjoy it but warn him if he's headed to a Society game or something that it may not fly.
              $endgroup$
              – Hey I Can Chan
              11 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              If the magus was large, because a large creature only occupies 2 squares when squeezing, they can end their movement while squeezing.
              $endgroup$
              – Wyrmwood
              8 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Wyrmwood Perhaps I misunderstood—it was all I could do when composing this answer not to confuse the magus and the vigilante—, but, yes, certainly the magus can end his movement while squeezing but—unless I'm missing something?—that still doesn't let the magus share squares with the vigilante.
              $endgroup$
              – Hey I Can Chan
              6 hours ago















            3












            $begingroup$

            If the typical Medium magus wants to occupy a square currently occupied by the typical Huge vigilante, then the vigilante must somehow vacate that square



            On Moving through a Square on Friend says, "You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character…" (emphasis mine), and on Ending Your Movement says, "You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless." An exception is made for a Very Small Creature that says, "A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square" (emphasis mine), but this likely doesn't apply here. Add to these points the rules on Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller that says




            Any creature can move [not into and but only] through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself. A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is.




            With all this in mind, there's just no way—even if squeezing (see Terrain and Obstacles for more)—for the typical Medium magus (or other typical Medium creature) to occupy a square that's also occupied by the typical Huge vigilante (or other typical Huge, Large, Medium, or Small creature). (A normally Small magus that was the subject of a reduce person spell could also occupy a square occupied by a currently Huge vigilante, though, but that's a long way to go.)



            So the typical Medium magus can't move into and remain in a square occupied the typical Huge vigilante; the vigilante must first exit that square somehow. The vigilante can exit the square by squeezing, but no amount of squeezing on the part of the magus's changes the magus's size category, and squeezing alone certainly can't diminish the magus's size by the two categories necessary to render him virtually Tiny!



            In short, get a Tiny or littler magus, find an exception that allows what you want (a belt of the weasel may help), make a house rule, or tell the big guy, "Suck in you gut!" The normal rules—sadly—just don't allow what the question describes.



            Just a heads-up: Multiple size increases



            Your table's ruling that the size increase of the extraordinary ability brute form of the brute archetype vigilante is nonmagical is accurate: that size change effect is an extraordinary ability rather than spell-like or supernatural, and, therefore, an enlarge person spell cast on the brute vigilante in brute form should—according to the Pathfinder treeware—have its normal effect and make the vigilante bigger. The enlarge person spell says, "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack" (emphasis mine). (Further, only "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell," and, to be clear, neither the brute form effect nor the enlarge person spell is tied to the polymorph subschool.) However, there's also this FAQ exchange:




            Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

            As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies.…




            That these mysterious and sweeping general "rules on size changes" don't actually exist except in this FAQ entry may be (although, in this reader's opinion, shouldn't be) beside the point: While your table can do whatever it wants—so far as I'm aware, Paizo has yet to create a secret police force—, your buddy may not be able to do that (Medium humanoid + brute form + enlarge person = Huge size) thing in another GM's campaign, no matter what the extraordinary ability brute form and the spell enlarge person say.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Interesting--thank you! I'll have a chat with the player, but since I've allowed it thus far, it would be unfair to pull the rug out from under him (and he oh so enjoys being The Hulk [and I might mention so do the other players]). As it is, nothing says stealth like a Huge Zombie Dwarf rampaging around Korvosa, so...his suvivability might help me out before I have to make a severe ruling ;)
              $endgroup$
              – TigerDM
              11 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @TigerDM O, if we're talking about the question, I agree that it kind of sucks to have to change this ruling now (presumably at low levels) when only he is benefiting from it, but the player'll likely come to appreciate the ruling at higher levels when Large and bigger foes routinely block the way of their littler minions! If we're talking about the Heads-up, yeah, I'd probably let it stand. That's a lot of resources to devote to getting that big; let the player enjoy it but warn him if he's headed to a Society game or something that it may not fly.
              $endgroup$
              – Hey I Can Chan
              11 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              If the magus was large, because a large creature only occupies 2 squares when squeezing, they can end their movement while squeezing.
              $endgroup$
              – Wyrmwood
              8 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Wyrmwood Perhaps I misunderstood—it was all I could do when composing this answer not to confuse the magus and the vigilante—, but, yes, certainly the magus can end his movement while squeezing but—unless I'm missing something?—that still doesn't let the magus share squares with the vigilante.
              $endgroup$
              – Hey I Can Chan
              6 hours ago













            3












            3








            3





            $begingroup$

            If the typical Medium magus wants to occupy a square currently occupied by the typical Huge vigilante, then the vigilante must somehow vacate that square



            On Moving through a Square on Friend says, "You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character…" (emphasis mine), and on Ending Your Movement says, "You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless." An exception is made for a Very Small Creature that says, "A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square" (emphasis mine), but this likely doesn't apply here. Add to these points the rules on Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller that says




            Any creature can move [not into and but only] through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself. A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is.




            With all this in mind, there's just no way—even if squeezing (see Terrain and Obstacles for more)—for the typical Medium magus (or other typical Medium creature) to occupy a square that's also occupied by the typical Huge vigilante (or other typical Huge, Large, Medium, or Small creature). (A normally Small magus that was the subject of a reduce person spell could also occupy a square occupied by a currently Huge vigilante, though, but that's a long way to go.)



            So the typical Medium magus can't move into and remain in a square occupied the typical Huge vigilante; the vigilante must first exit that square somehow. The vigilante can exit the square by squeezing, but no amount of squeezing on the part of the magus's changes the magus's size category, and squeezing alone certainly can't diminish the magus's size by the two categories necessary to render him virtually Tiny!



            In short, get a Tiny or littler magus, find an exception that allows what you want (a belt of the weasel may help), make a house rule, or tell the big guy, "Suck in you gut!" The normal rules—sadly—just don't allow what the question describes.



            Just a heads-up: Multiple size increases



            Your table's ruling that the size increase of the extraordinary ability brute form of the brute archetype vigilante is nonmagical is accurate: that size change effect is an extraordinary ability rather than spell-like or supernatural, and, therefore, an enlarge person spell cast on the brute vigilante in brute form should—according to the Pathfinder treeware—have its normal effect and make the vigilante bigger. The enlarge person spell says, "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack" (emphasis mine). (Further, only "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell," and, to be clear, neither the brute form effect nor the enlarge person spell is tied to the polymorph subschool.) However, there's also this FAQ exchange:




            Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

            As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies.…




            That these mysterious and sweeping general "rules on size changes" don't actually exist except in this FAQ entry may be (although, in this reader's opinion, shouldn't be) beside the point: While your table can do whatever it wants—so far as I'm aware, Paizo has yet to create a secret police force—, your buddy may not be able to do that (Medium humanoid + brute form + enlarge person = Huge size) thing in another GM's campaign, no matter what the extraordinary ability brute form and the spell enlarge person say.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            If the typical Medium magus wants to occupy a square currently occupied by the typical Huge vigilante, then the vigilante must somehow vacate that square



            On Moving through a Square on Friend says, "You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character…" (emphasis mine), and on Ending Your Movement says, "You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless." An exception is made for a Very Small Creature that says, "A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square" (emphasis mine), but this likely doesn't apply here. Add to these points the rules on Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller that says




            Any creature can move [not into and but only] through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself. A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is.




            With all this in mind, there's just no way—even if squeezing (see Terrain and Obstacles for more)—for the typical Medium magus (or other typical Medium creature) to occupy a square that's also occupied by the typical Huge vigilante (or other typical Huge, Large, Medium, or Small creature). (A normally Small magus that was the subject of a reduce person spell could also occupy a square occupied by a currently Huge vigilante, though, but that's a long way to go.)



            So the typical Medium magus can't move into and remain in a square occupied the typical Huge vigilante; the vigilante must first exit that square somehow. The vigilante can exit the square by squeezing, but no amount of squeezing on the part of the magus's changes the magus's size category, and squeezing alone certainly can't diminish the magus's size by the two categories necessary to render him virtually Tiny!



            In short, get a Tiny or littler magus, find an exception that allows what you want (a belt of the weasel may help), make a house rule, or tell the big guy, "Suck in you gut!" The normal rules—sadly—just don't allow what the question describes.



            Just a heads-up: Multiple size increases



            Your table's ruling that the size increase of the extraordinary ability brute form of the brute archetype vigilante is nonmagical is accurate: that size change effect is an extraordinary ability rather than spell-like or supernatural, and, therefore, an enlarge person spell cast on the brute vigilante in brute form should—according to the Pathfinder treeware—have its normal effect and make the vigilante bigger. The enlarge person spell says, "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack" (emphasis mine). (Further, only "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell," and, to be clear, neither the brute form effect nor the enlarge person spell is tied to the polymorph subschool.) However, there's also this FAQ exchange:




            Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

            As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies.…




            That these mysterious and sweeping general "rules on size changes" don't actually exist except in this FAQ entry may be (although, in this reader's opinion, shouldn't be) beside the point: While your table can do whatever it wants—so far as I'm aware, Paizo has yet to create a secret police force—, your buddy may not be able to do that (Medium humanoid + brute form + enlarge person = Huge size) thing in another GM's campaign, no matter what the extraordinary ability brute form and the spell enlarge person say.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 12 hours ago

























            answered 13 hours ago









            Hey I Can ChanHey I Can Chan

            144k12256617




            144k12256617











            • $begingroup$
              Interesting--thank you! I'll have a chat with the player, but since I've allowed it thus far, it would be unfair to pull the rug out from under him (and he oh so enjoys being The Hulk [and I might mention so do the other players]). As it is, nothing says stealth like a Huge Zombie Dwarf rampaging around Korvosa, so...his suvivability might help me out before I have to make a severe ruling ;)
              $endgroup$
              – TigerDM
              11 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @TigerDM O, if we're talking about the question, I agree that it kind of sucks to have to change this ruling now (presumably at low levels) when only he is benefiting from it, but the player'll likely come to appreciate the ruling at higher levels when Large and bigger foes routinely block the way of their littler minions! If we're talking about the Heads-up, yeah, I'd probably let it stand. That's a lot of resources to devote to getting that big; let the player enjoy it but warn him if he's headed to a Society game or something that it may not fly.
              $endgroup$
              – Hey I Can Chan
              11 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              If the magus was large, because a large creature only occupies 2 squares when squeezing, they can end their movement while squeezing.
              $endgroup$
              – Wyrmwood
              8 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Wyrmwood Perhaps I misunderstood—it was all I could do when composing this answer not to confuse the magus and the vigilante—, but, yes, certainly the magus can end his movement while squeezing but—unless I'm missing something?—that still doesn't let the magus share squares with the vigilante.
              $endgroup$
              – Hey I Can Chan
              6 hours ago
















            • $begingroup$
              Interesting--thank you! I'll have a chat with the player, but since I've allowed it thus far, it would be unfair to pull the rug out from under him (and he oh so enjoys being The Hulk [and I might mention so do the other players]). As it is, nothing says stealth like a Huge Zombie Dwarf rampaging around Korvosa, so...his suvivability might help me out before I have to make a severe ruling ;)
              $endgroup$
              – TigerDM
              11 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @TigerDM O, if we're talking about the question, I agree that it kind of sucks to have to change this ruling now (presumably at low levels) when only he is benefiting from it, but the player'll likely come to appreciate the ruling at higher levels when Large and bigger foes routinely block the way of their littler minions! If we're talking about the Heads-up, yeah, I'd probably let it stand. That's a lot of resources to devote to getting that big; let the player enjoy it but warn him if he's headed to a Society game or something that it may not fly.
              $endgroup$
              – Hey I Can Chan
              11 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              If the magus was large, because a large creature only occupies 2 squares when squeezing, they can end their movement while squeezing.
              $endgroup$
              – Wyrmwood
              8 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Wyrmwood Perhaps I misunderstood—it was all I could do when composing this answer not to confuse the magus and the vigilante—, but, yes, certainly the magus can end his movement while squeezing but—unless I'm missing something?—that still doesn't let the magus share squares with the vigilante.
              $endgroup$
              – Hey I Can Chan
              6 hours ago















            $begingroup$
            Interesting--thank you! I'll have a chat with the player, but since I've allowed it thus far, it would be unfair to pull the rug out from under him (and he oh so enjoys being The Hulk [and I might mention so do the other players]). As it is, nothing says stealth like a Huge Zombie Dwarf rampaging around Korvosa, so...his suvivability might help me out before I have to make a severe ruling ;)
            $endgroup$
            – TigerDM
            11 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Interesting--thank you! I'll have a chat with the player, but since I've allowed it thus far, it would be unfair to pull the rug out from under him (and he oh so enjoys being The Hulk [and I might mention so do the other players]). As it is, nothing says stealth like a Huge Zombie Dwarf rampaging around Korvosa, so...his suvivability might help me out before I have to make a severe ruling ;)
            $endgroup$
            – TigerDM
            11 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            @TigerDM O, if we're talking about the question, I agree that it kind of sucks to have to change this ruling now (presumably at low levels) when only he is benefiting from it, but the player'll likely come to appreciate the ruling at higher levels when Large and bigger foes routinely block the way of their littler minions! If we're talking about the Heads-up, yeah, I'd probably let it stand. That's a lot of resources to devote to getting that big; let the player enjoy it but warn him if he's headed to a Society game or something that it may not fly.
            $endgroup$
            – Hey I Can Chan
            11 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            @TigerDM O, if we're talking about the question, I agree that it kind of sucks to have to change this ruling now (presumably at low levels) when only he is benefiting from it, but the player'll likely come to appreciate the ruling at higher levels when Large and bigger foes routinely block the way of their littler minions! If we're talking about the Heads-up, yeah, I'd probably let it stand. That's a lot of resources to devote to getting that big; let the player enjoy it but warn him if he's headed to a Society game or something that it may not fly.
            $endgroup$
            – Hey I Can Chan
            11 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            If the magus was large, because a large creature only occupies 2 squares when squeezing, they can end their movement while squeezing.
            $endgroup$
            – Wyrmwood
            8 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            If the magus was large, because a large creature only occupies 2 squares when squeezing, they can end their movement while squeezing.
            $endgroup$
            – Wyrmwood
            8 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            @Wyrmwood Perhaps I misunderstood—it was all I could do when composing this answer not to confuse the magus and the vigilante—, but, yes, certainly the magus can end his movement while squeezing but—unless I'm missing something?—that still doesn't let the magus share squares with the vigilante.
            $endgroup$
            – Hey I Can Chan
            6 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            @Wyrmwood Perhaps I misunderstood—it was all I could do when composing this answer not to confuse the magus and the vigilante—, but, yes, certainly the magus can end his movement while squeezing but—unless I'm missing something?—that still doesn't let the magus share squares with the vigilante.
            $endgroup$
            – Hey I Can Chan
            6 hours ago













            2












            $begingroup$

            No



            If I understand the question correctly, the Magus still ends up in the Vigilante's space. And as you said yourself:




            A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can't end its movement in an occupied square.




            It is also implied that squeezing always happens during movement, which means the player cannot stand still and take an action.



            Although you could rule that as long as the Magus can move outside of the Vigilante's space after the action, it is able to anything while in its space. Although, that is entirely up to DM Fiat.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            SlimeBolt is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$

















              2












              $begingroup$

              No



              If I understand the question correctly, the Magus still ends up in the Vigilante's space. And as you said yourself:




              A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can't end its movement in an occupied square.




              It is also implied that squeezing always happens during movement, which means the player cannot stand still and take an action.



              Although you could rule that as long as the Magus can move outside of the Vigilante's space after the action, it is able to anything while in its space. Although, that is entirely up to DM Fiat.






              share|improve this answer










              New contributor




              SlimeBolt is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              $endgroup$















                2












                2








                2





                $begingroup$

                No



                If I understand the question correctly, the Magus still ends up in the Vigilante's space. And as you said yourself:




                A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can't end its movement in an occupied square.




                It is also implied that squeezing always happens during movement, which means the player cannot stand still and take an action.



                Although you could rule that as long as the Magus can move outside of the Vigilante's space after the action, it is able to anything while in its space. Although, that is entirely up to DM Fiat.






                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                SlimeBolt is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                $endgroup$



                No



                If I understand the question correctly, the Magus still ends up in the Vigilante's space. And as you said yourself:




                A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can't end its movement in an occupied square.




                It is also implied that squeezing always happens during movement, which means the player cannot stand still and take an action.



                Although you could rule that as long as the Magus can move outside of the Vigilante's space after the action, it is able to anything while in its space. Although, that is entirely up to DM Fiat.







                share|improve this answer










                New contributor




                SlimeBolt is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 2 hours ago









                V2Blast

                23.7k378150




                23.7k378150






                New contributor




                SlimeBolt is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                answered 14 hours ago









                SlimeBoltSlimeBolt

                214




                214




                New contributor




                SlimeBolt is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                New contributor





                SlimeBolt is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                SlimeBolt is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.



























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded
















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid


                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function ()
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142727%2fspell-combat-in-confined-spaces-are-there-penalties%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Möglingen Índice Localización Historia Demografía Referencias Enlaces externos Menú de navegación48°53′18″N 9°07′45″E / 48.888333333333, 9.129166666666748°53′18″N 9°07′45″E / 48.888333333333, 9.1291666666667Sitio web oficial Mapa de Möglingen«Gemeinden in Deutschland nach Fläche, Bevölkerung und Postleitzahl am 30.09.2016»Möglingen

                    Virtualbox - Configuration error: Querying “UUID” failed (VERR_CFGM_VALUE_NOT_FOUND)“VERR_SUPLIB_WORLD_WRITABLE” error when trying to installing OS in virtualboxVirtual Box Kernel errorFailed to open a seesion for the virtual machineFailed to open a session for the virtual machineUbuntu 14.04 LTS Virtualbox errorcan't use VM VirtualBoxusing virtualboxI can't run Linux-64 Bit on VirtualBoxUnable to insert the virtual optical disk (VBoxguestaddition) in virtual machine for ubuntu server in win 10VirtuaBox in Ubuntu 18.04 Issues with Win10.ISO Installation

                    Torre de la Isleta Índice Véase también Referencias Bibliografía Enlaces externos Menú de navegación38°25′58″N 0°23′02″O / 38.43277778, -0.3838888938°25′58″N 0°23′02″O / 38.43277778, -0.38388889Torre de la Illeta de l’Horta o Torre Saleta. Base de datos de bienes inmuebles. Patrimonio Cultural. Secretaría de Estado de CulturaFicha BIC Torre de la Illeta de l’Horta. Dirección General de Patrimonio Cultural. Generalitat ValencianaLugares de interés. Ayuntamiento del CampelloTorre de la Isleta en CastillosNet.org