Could this Scherzo by Beethoven be considered to be a fugue?Beethoven repeated sforzandoHow to Write A FugueGuide to Art of the Fugue?Any information on this tease of a fugue in Beethoven's Hammerklavier?Beethoven piano concerto 3 mvt 3Beethoven sonata pathetique, playing with small handsBeethoven Kreutzer string quintetWhat makes a piece a fugue?Unplayable turn in Beethoven sonataHow to overcome emotional tension with this Beethoven rondo
Are ETF trackers fundamentally better than individual stocks?
Explaining pyrokinesis powers
What's the meaning of a knight fighting a snail in medieval book illustrations?
The German vowel “a” changes to the English “i”
Why do passenger jet manufacturers design their planes with stall prevention systems?
How to get the n-th line after a grepped one?
Employee lack of ownership
How difficult is it to simply disable/disengage the MCAS on Boeing 737 Max 8 & 9 Aircraft?
I got the following comment from a reputed math journal. What does it mean?
Professor being mistaken for a grad student
What exactly is this small puffer fish doing and how did it manage to accomplish such a feat?
Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor breaks the "no parallel octaves" rule?
Is it normal that my co-workers at a fitness company criticize my food choices?
Happy pi day, everyone!
Official degrees of earth’s rotation per day
How to explain that I do not want to visit a country due to personal safety concern?
Is there a hypothetical scenario that would make Earth uninhabitable for humans, but not for (the majority of) other animals?
Non-trivial topology where only open sets are closed
Math equation in non italic font
When to use a slotted vs. solid turner?
Why does overlay work only on the first tcolorbox?
Is a party consisting of only a bard, a cleric, and a warlock functional long-term?
New passport but visa is in old (lost) passport
Could the Saturn V actually have launched astronauts around Venus?
Could this Scherzo by Beethoven be considered to be a fugue?
Beethoven repeated sforzandoHow to Write A FugueGuide to Art of the Fugue?Any information on this tease of a fugue in Beethoven's Hammerklavier?Beethoven piano concerto 3 mvt 3Beethoven sonata pathetique, playing with small handsBeethoven Kreutzer string quintetWhat makes a piece a fugue?Unplayable turn in Beethoven sonataHow to overcome emotional tension with this Beethoven rondo
I have listened to the scherzo of Beethoven's Piano Sonata op. 2 no. 3 and it is very fugal in nature. It even has a fugal exposition(though it is dominant, dominant, dominant, dominant of dominant, in terms of the key in which each voice appears, which Bach would never do), which I think is unusual, especially for an early Beethoven piece. Now I'm not saying fugal passages aren't common in Beethoven's pieces because they are. But they usually don't have a true exposition and are thus more like a canon in that sense than a fugue(except that a canon wouldn't have countersubjects, just the same melody delayed and maybe also transposed). This scherzo actually has a true exposition.
Albeit, the trio is very much arpeggios over a bass line which is not fugal at all. But the Scherzo part of the Scherzo and Trio movement is fugal in nature.
Could this Scherzo actually be considered a fugue since it has not only imitation and countersubjects(well at least 1 after the first repeat), but a full exposition(albeit it breaks some Baroque 4 part counterpoint rules, but Beethoven was an innovative composer who broke the rules because they deserved to be broken)?
piano beethoven fugue
asked 1 hour ago
CatersCaters
1,0671821
add a comment |
I have listened to the scherzo of Beethoven's Piano Sonata op. 2 no. 3 and it is very fugal in nature. It even has a fugal exposition(though it is dominant, dominant, dominant, dominant of dominant, in terms of the key in which each voice appears, which Bach would never do), which I think is unusual, especially for an early Beethoven piece. Now I'm not saying fugal passages aren't common in Beethoven's pieces because they are. But they usually don't have a true exposition and are thus more like a canon in that sense than a fugue(except that a canon wouldn't have countersubjects, just the same melody delayed and maybe also transposed). This scherzo actually has a true exposition.
Albeit, the trio is very much arpeggios over a bass line which is not fugal at all. But the Scherzo part of the Scherzo and Trio movement is fugal in nature.
Could this Scherzo actually be considered a fugue since it has not only imitation and countersubjects(well at least 1 after the first repeat), but a full exposition(albeit it breaks some Baroque 4 part counterpoint rules, but Beethoven was an innovative composer who broke the rules because they deserved to be broken)?
piano beethoven fugue
asked 1 hour ago
CatersCaters
1,0671821
add a comment |
I have listened to the scherzo of Beethoven's Piano Sonata op. 2 no. 3 and it is very fugal in nature. It even has a fugal exposition(though it is dominant, dominant, dominant, dominant of dominant, in terms of the key in which each voice appears, which Bach would never do), which I think is unusual, especially for an early Beethoven piece. Now I'm not saying fugal passages aren't common in Beethoven's pieces because they are. But they usually don't have a true exposition and are thus more like a canon in that sense than a fugue(except that a canon wouldn't have countersubjects, just the same melody delayed and maybe also transposed). This scherzo actually has a true exposition.
Albeit, the trio is very much arpeggios over a bass line which is not fugal at all. But the Scherzo part of the Scherzo and Trio movement is fugal in nature.
Could this Scherzo actually be considered a fugue since it has not only imitation and countersubjects(well at least 1 after the first repeat), but a full exposition(albeit it breaks some Baroque 4 part counterpoint rules, but Beethoven was an innovative composer who broke the rules because they deserved to be broken)?
piano beethoven fugue
asked 1 hour ago
CatersCaters
1,0671821
I have listened to the scherzo of Beethoven's Piano Sonata op. 2 no. 3 and it is very fugal in nature. It even has a fugal exposition(though it is dominant, dominant, dominant, dominant of dominant, in terms of the key in which each voice appears, which Bach would never do), which I think is unusual, especially for an early Beethoven piece. Now I'm not saying fugal passages aren't common in Beethoven's pieces because they are. But they usually don't have a true exposition and are thus more like a canon in that sense than a fugue(except that a canon wouldn't have countersubjects, just the same melody delayed and maybe also transposed). This scherzo actually has a true exposition.
Albeit, the trio is very much arpeggios over a bass line which is not fugal at all. But the Scherzo part of the Scherzo and Trio movement is fugal in nature.
Could this Scherzo actually be considered a fugue since it has not only imitation and countersubjects(well at least 1 after the first repeat), but a full exposition(albeit it breaks some Baroque 4 part counterpoint rules, but Beethoven was an innovative composer who broke the rules because they deserved to be broken)?
piano beethoven fugue
piano beethoven fugue
asked 1 hour ago
CatersCaters
1,0671821
asked 1 hour ago
CatersCaters
1,0671821
asked 1 hour ago
CatersCaters
1,0671821
asked 1 hour ago
CatersCaters
1,0671821
asked 1 hour ago
CatersCaters
1,0671821
1,0671821
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
This is not a fugue, nor a fugato section within a larger work. I get the comparison with a fugal exposition but I think this is being too loose. Too many expectations of a fugal exposition aren't present. The music doesn't preserve the polyphonic texture, indeed as much of the scherzo's texture is homophonic. This is just free imitation.
The last movements of Op 101 and Op 106 are examples of genuine fugal writing in Beethoven's sonatas.
answered 54 mins ago
repletereplete
2,480518
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "240"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f81554%2fcould-this-scherzo-by-beethoven-be-considered-to-be-a-fugue%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
This is not a fugue, nor a fugato section within a larger work. I get the comparison with a fugal exposition but I think this is being too loose. Too many expectations of a fugal exposition aren't present. The music doesn't preserve the polyphonic texture, indeed as much of the scherzo's texture is homophonic. This is just free imitation.
The last movements of Op 101 and Op 106 are examples of genuine fugal writing in Beethoven's sonatas.
answered 54 mins ago
repletereplete
2,480518
add a comment |
This is not a fugue, nor a fugato section within a larger work. I get the comparison with a fugal exposition but I think this is being too loose. Too many expectations of a fugal exposition aren't present. The music doesn't preserve the polyphonic texture, indeed as much of the scherzo's texture is homophonic. This is just free imitation.
The last movements of Op 101 and Op 106 are examples of genuine fugal writing in Beethoven's sonatas.
answered 54 mins ago
repletereplete
2,480518
add a comment |
This is not a fugue, nor a fugato section within a larger work. I get the comparison with a fugal exposition but I think this is being too loose. Too many expectations of a fugal exposition aren't present. The music doesn't preserve the polyphonic texture, indeed as much of the scherzo's texture is homophonic. This is just free imitation.
The last movements of Op 101 and Op 106 are examples of genuine fugal writing in Beethoven's sonatas.
answered 54 mins ago
repletereplete
2,480518
This is not a fugue, nor a fugato section within a larger work. I get the comparison with a fugal exposition but I think this is being too loose. Too many expectations of a fugal exposition aren't present. The music doesn't preserve the polyphonic texture, indeed as much of the scherzo's texture is homophonic. This is just free imitation.
The last movements of Op 101 and Op 106 are examples of genuine fugal writing in Beethoven's sonatas.
answered 54 mins ago
repletereplete
2,480518
answered 54 mins ago
repletereplete
2,480518
answered 54 mins ago
repletereplete
2,480518
answered 54 mins ago
repletereplete
2,480518
2,480518
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f81554%2fcould-this-scherzo-by-beethoven-be-considered-to-be-a-fugue%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
