When a wind turbine does not produce enough electricity how does the power company compensate for the loss?How precise is the frequency of the AC electricity network?How exactly does the grid handle small deviations in power consumption?How do I, as a consumer, gain or lose when the utility company line voltage varies from rated value?Does using “High Leg Delta” 3-phase electricity require a different equation for calculating Amperage/Power?Can I use offline UPS for a PC? Will the delay affect my PC if it is running when the power goes out?How is electricity from a power station added to the grid?Why does a wind turbine deliver reactive power to the grid during no winds or when turbine is stopped?Why maximum power transfer condition is suitable for communication system but not for transmission of electricity?
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When a wind turbine does not produce enough electricity how does the power company compensate for the loss?
How precise is the frequency of the AC electricity network?How exactly does the grid handle small deviations in power consumption?How do I, as a consumer, gain or lose when the utility company line voltage varies from rated value?Does using “High Leg Delta” 3-phase electricity require a different equation for calculating Amperage/Power?Can I use offline UPS for a PC? Will the delay affect my PC if it is running when the power goes out?How is electricity from a power station added to the grid?Why does a wind turbine deliver reactive power to the grid during no winds or when turbine is stopped?Why maximum power transfer condition is suitable for communication system but not for transmission of electricity?
$begingroup$
I heard once that when a wind turbine power plant doesn't produce enough electricity the power company's are sometimes forced to turn on a couple of jet engines in order to compensate for the loss, is there any truth to that? I imagine stability is a key factor in keeping the production static and efficient, so what would the power company do?
power-engineering power-grid
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I heard once that when a wind turbine power plant doesn't produce enough electricity the power company's are sometimes forced to turn on a couple of jet engines in order to compensate for the loss, is there any truth to that? I imagine stability is a key factor in keeping the production static and efficient, so what would the power company do?
power-engineering power-grid
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I heard once that when a wind turbine power plant doesn't produce enough electricity the power company's are sometimes forced to turn on a couple of jet engines in order to compensate for the loss, is there any truth to that? I imagine stability is a key factor in keeping the production static and efficient, so what would the power company do?
power-engineering power-grid
New contributor
$endgroup$
I heard once that when a wind turbine power plant doesn't produce enough electricity the power company's are sometimes forced to turn on a couple of jet engines in order to compensate for the loss, is there any truth to that? I imagine stability is a key factor in keeping the production static and efficient, so what would the power company do?
power-engineering power-grid
power-engineering power-grid
New contributor
New contributor
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asked 42 mins ago
RobRob
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
This is correct. When the demand exceeds supply, voltage will sag and frequency will drop (which can risk equipment failure and is certainly an undesirable situation). The operators of power grids will turn on alternative sources of generation in order to correct the imbalance as soon as it is noticed (often under the coordination of a regional transmission organization such as CAISO).
Grid operators are very careful to ensure that the grid frequency is properly maintained (source); even a few seconds of drift (i.e. a few hundred cycles ahead or behind) require RTOs and related agencies to take corrective action where safe.
In order to understand the mix of energy a bit more thoroughly, it's necessary to take into account the types of generation, which include base-load plants, load-following plants, intermittent sources, and peaker plants:
- Base-load plants are designed to operate at high cost efficiency (not necessarily environmental efficiency or any other measure of efficiency, unless dictated by local laws and priorities), but cannot be adjusted quickly. Examples of these may include large coal and nuclear base load.
- Load-following plants can adjust if they have capacity (e.g. hydroelectric or smaller fuel-burning plants)
- Peaker plants are agile and can be brought online quickly (e.g. gas turbines), but are inefficient. When the base-load plants are insufficient, load-following plants increase their load; if this capacity is exhausted or the grid is experiencing rapid swings in load that the load-following plants cannot keep up with, then peakers will come online and begin burning fuel to achieve enough supply to balance the demand.
Another factor to consider is planning: If an area has consistent winds and enough wind turbines, the wind can be considered part of base-load: It cannot be adjusted, but is relatively predictable and consistent day-to-day. Gaps in the wind are treated the same way as any other shortfall of base-load: first via load-following plants if possible and then with the help of the peakers.
Known gaps and shortfalls can also be handled through trading. For example, Washington State, US has abundant hydroelectric power, and exports energy to fourteen other states. Its overproduction of energy (which can itself be as harmful as underproduction) is usefully diverted to help make up some of the supply of neighboring states such as California (source). This export includes base-load if the local demand is dropping too quickly for the operating power plants to adjust.
Stored energy also makes a contribution. The sources for such extra energy may be storage sites such as pumped energy storage, batteries (e.g. this), or they may be generation (not necessarily burning fuel).
Lastly, load-shedding is a last-resort. If conditions are adverse (very high demand such as air-conditioning on a hot day, transmission line failures, loss of base-load, etc) then the grid operator may increase the real-time price of industrial energy, or even require that industrial grid users curtail their demand to avoid grid instability. If this is insufficient then blackouts and brownouts will occur, to prevent the total loss of the grid and its most critical users (hospitals, emergency services, communications).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That's all fairly accurate except I don't think coal is very efficient. Wind generation doesn't really count for much in the big picture yet. The NG gas turbines are expensive to operate but can load balance very quickly. Base line plant adjust so slowly that when demand drops too quickly electrity has to be dumped elsewhere. Which means selling it at significantly less then the cost of producing it. I know that our price in Canada changes with the American dollar. Excess power goes back and forth across the border and makes a mess of the price. The whole grid is interconnected.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala Coal is not efficient relative to its environmental effect, but it is efficient relative to its financial cost in many parts of the world, to the best of my knowledge.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
17 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh yeah it's cheap but from a combustion efficiency point of view I don't think it's very good. I believe that many of the plants are being upgraded but because the cost is still low enough it not financially sustainable to run the higher efficiency plants. I haven't brushed up on this for several years, so I'm not familiar with the current technology. I'm pretty sure nuclear is the cheapest to run and the cleanest overall but expensive to set up and people are terrified of it. Nuclear is actually cleaner then solar panels if you factor in the production of the material in the panels.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
11 mins ago
$begingroup$
J-Power's unit 2 ultrasupercritical(mouthfull) in Japan has 45% efficiency which is pretty damn good. Nuclear power is is like 55% I think more of those ultrasupercritical plants are coming online soon.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
4 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala I've edited the answer to mention cost-efficiency in particular to avoid any confusion.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
2 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I was going to scold you for not doing a search -- then couldn't find a decent answer! So -- here's a short answer:
First, jet engines -- no. You're thinking of gas turbines, but they are not jet engines (try a web search on "Gas Turbine").
Second, there's not a lot of energy storage on the electrical grid, aside from tanks of gas, piles of coal, uranium rods, and water behind dams. Batteries are starting to look like maybe they'll be practical, eventually. But by and large, when "alternative" energy sources poop out, there needs to be a "traditional" energy source that kicks in. Gas turbines are good for this because they can be brought on line quickly.
This wiki article goes into the grid storage issue.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
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$begingroup$
This is correct. When the demand exceeds supply, voltage will sag and frequency will drop (which can risk equipment failure and is certainly an undesirable situation). The operators of power grids will turn on alternative sources of generation in order to correct the imbalance as soon as it is noticed (often under the coordination of a regional transmission organization such as CAISO).
Grid operators are very careful to ensure that the grid frequency is properly maintained (source); even a few seconds of drift (i.e. a few hundred cycles ahead or behind) require RTOs and related agencies to take corrective action where safe.
In order to understand the mix of energy a bit more thoroughly, it's necessary to take into account the types of generation, which include base-load plants, load-following plants, intermittent sources, and peaker plants:
- Base-load plants are designed to operate at high cost efficiency (not necessarily environmental efficiency or any other measure of efficiency, unless dictated by local laws and priorities), but cannot be adjusted quickly. Examples of these may include large coal and nuclear base load.
- Load-following plants can adjust if they have capacity (e.g. hydroelectric or smaller fuel-burning plants)
- Peaker plants are agile and can be brought online quickly (e.g. gas turbines), but are inefficient. When the base-load plants are insufficient, load-following plants increase their load; if this capacity is exhausted or the grid is experiencing rapid swings in load that the load-following plants cannot keep up with, then peakers will come online and begin burning fuel to achieve enough supply to balance the demand.
Another factor to consider is planning: If an area has consistent winds and enough wind turbines, the wind can be considered part of base-load: It cannot be adjusted, but is relatively predictable and consistent day-to-day. Gaps in the wind are treated the same way as any other shortfall of base-load: first via load-following plants if possible and then with the help of the peakers.
Known gaps and shortfalls can also be handled through trading. For example, Washington State, US has abundant hydroelectric power, and exports energy to fourteen other states. Its overproduction of energy (which can itself be as harmful as underproduction) is usefully diverted to help make up some of the supply of neighboring states such as California (source). This export includes base-load if the local demand is dropping too quickly for the operating power plants to adjust.
Stored energy also makes a contribution. The sources for such extra energy may be storage sites such as pumped energy storage, batteries (e.g. this), or they may be generation (not necessarily burning fuel).
Lastly, load-shedding is a last-resort. If conditions are adverse (very high demand such as air-conditioning on a hot day, transmission line failures, loss of base-load, etc) then the grid operator may increase the real-time price of industrial energy, or even require that industrial grid users curtail their demand to avoid grid instability. If this is insufficient then blackouts and brownouts will occur, to prevent the total loss of the grid and its most critical users (hospitals, emergency services, communications).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That's all fairly accurate except I don't think coal is very efficient. Wind generation doesn't really count for much in the big picture yet. The NG gas turbines are expensive to operate but can load balance very quickly. Base line plant adjust so slowly that when demand drops too quickly electrity has to be dumped elsewhere. Which means selling it at significantly less then the cost of producing it. I know that our price in Canada changes with the American dollar. Excess power goes back and forth across the border and makes a mess of the price. The whole grid is interconnected.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala Coal is not efficient relative to its environmental effect, but it is efficient relative to its financial cost in many parts of the world, to the best of my knowledge.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
17 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh yeah it's cheap but from a combustion efficiency point of view I don't think it's very good. I believe that many of the plants are being upgraded but because the cost is still low enough it not financially sustainable to run the higher efficiency plants. I haven't brushed up on this for several years, so I'm not familiar with the current technology. I'm pretty sure nuclear is the cheapest to run and the cleanest overall but expensive to set up and people are terrified of it. Nuclear is actually cleaner then solar panels if you factor in the production of the material in the panels.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
11 mins ago
$begingroup$
J-Power's unit 2 ultrasupercritical(mouthfull) in Japan has 45% efficiency which is pretty damn good. Nuclear power is is like 55% I think more of those ultrasupercritical plants are coming online soon.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
4 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala I've edited the answer to mention cost-efficiency in particular to avoid any confusion.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
2 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is correct. When the demand exceeds supply, voltage will sag and frequency will drop (which can risk equipment failure and is certainly an undesirable situation). The operators of power grids will turn on alternative sources of generation in order to correct the imbalance as soon as it is noticed (often under the coordination of a regional transmission organization such as CAISO).
Grid operators are very careful to ensure that the grid frequency is properly maintained (source); even a few seconds of drift (i.e. a few hundred cycles ahead or behind) require RTOs and related agencies to take corrective action where safe.
In order to understand the mix of energy a bit more thoroughly, it's necessary to take into account the types of generation, which include base-load plants, load-following plants, intermittent sources, and peaker plants:
- Base-load plants are designed to operate at high cost efficiency (not necessarily environmental efficiency or any other measure of efficiency, unless dictated by local laws and priorities), but cannot be adjusted quickly. Examples of these may include large coal and nuclear base load.
- Load-following plants can adjust if they have capacity (e.g. hydroelectric or smaller fuel-burning plants)
- Peaker plants are agile and can be brought online quickly (e.g. gas turbines), but are inefficient. When the base-load plants are insufficient, load-following plants increase their load; if this capacity is exhausted or the grid is experiencing rapid swings in load that the load-following plants cannot keep up with, then peakers will come online and begin burning fuel to achieve enough supply to balance the demand.
Another factor to consider is planning: If an area has consistent winds and enough wind turbines, the wind can be considered part of base-load: It cannot be adjusted, but is relatively predictable and consistent day-to-day. Gaps in the wind are treated the same way as any other shortfall of base-load: first via load-following plants if possible and then with the help of the peakers.
Known gaps and shortfalls can also be handled through trading. For example, Washington State, US has abundant hydroelectric power, and exports energy to fourteen other states. Its overproduction of energy (which can itself be as harmful as underproduction) is usefully diverted to help make up some of the supply of neighboring states such as California (source). This export includes base-load if the local demand is dropping too quickly for the operating power plants to adjust.
Stored energy also makes a contribution. The sources for such extra energy may be storage sites such as pumped energy storage, batteries (e.g. this), or they may be generation (not necessarily burning fuel).
Lastly, load-shedding is a last-resort. If conditions are adverse (very high demand such as air-conditioning on a hot day, transmission line failures, loss of base-load, etc) then the grid operator may increase the real-time price of industrial energy, or even require that industrial grid users curtail their demand to avoid grid instability. If this is insufficient then blackouts and brownouts will occur, to prevent the total loss of the grid and its most critical users (hospitals, emergency services, communications).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
That's all fairly accurate except I don't think coal is very efficient. Wind generation doesn't really count for much in the big picture yet. The NG gas turbines are expensive to operate but can load balance very quickly. Base line plant adjust so slowly that when demand drops too quickly electrity has to be dumped elsewhere. Which means selling it at significantly less then the cost of producing it. I know that our price in Canada changes with the American dollar. Excess power goes back and forth across the border and makes a mess of the price. The whole grid is interconnected.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala Coal is not efficient relative to its environmental effect, but it is efficient relative to its financial cost in many parts of the world, to the best of my knowledge.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
17 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh yeah it's cheap but from a combustion efficiency point of view I don't think it's very good. I believe that many of the plants are being upgraded but because the cost is still low enough it not financially sustainable to run the higher efficiency plants. I haven't brushed up on this for several years, so I'm not familiar with the current technology. I'm pretty sure nuclear is the cheapest to run and the cleanest overall but expensive to set up and people are terrified of it. Nuclear is actually cleaner then solar panels if you factor in the production of the material in the panels.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
11 mins ago
$begingroup$
J-Power's unit 2 ultrasupercritical(mouthfull) in Japan has 45% efficiency which is pretty damn good. Nuclear power is is like 55% I think more of those ultrasupercritical plants are coming online soon.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
4 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala I've edited the answer to mention cost-efficiency in particular to avoid any confusion.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
2 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is correct. When the demand exceeds supply, voltage will sag and frequency will drop (which can risk equipment failure and is certainly an undesirable situation). The operators of power grids will turn on alternative sources of generation in order to correct the imbalance as soon as it is noticed (often under the coordination of a regional transmission organization such as CAISO).
Grid operators are very careful to ensure that the grid frequency is properly maintained (source); even a few seconds of drift (i.e. a few hundred cycles ahead or behind) require RTOs and related agencies to take corrective action where safe.
In order to understand the mix of energy a bit more thoroughly, it's necessary to take into account the types of generation, which include base-load plants, load-following plants, intermittent sources, and peaker plants:
- Base-load plants are designed to operate at high cost efficiency (not necessarily environmental efficiency or any other measure of efficiency, unless dictated by local laws and priorities), but cannot be adjusted quickly. Examples of these may include large coal and nuclear base load.
- Load-following plants can adjust if they have capacity (e.g. hydroelectric or smaller fuel-burning plants)
- Peaker plants are agile and can be brought online quickly (e.g. gas turbines), but are inefficient. When the base-load plants are insufficient, load-following plants increase their load; if this capacity is exhausted or the grid is experiencing rapid swings in load that the load-following plants cannot keep up with, then peakers will come online and begin burning fuel to achieve enough supply to balance the demand.
Another factor to consider is planning: If an area has consistent winds and enough wind turbines, the wind can be considered part of base-load: It cannot be adjusted, but is relatively predictable and consistent day-to-day. Gaps in the wind are treated the same way as any other shortfall of base-load: first via load-following plants if possible and then with the help of the peakers.
Known gaps and shortfalls can also be handled through trading. For example, Washington State, US has abundant hydroelectric power, and exports energy to fourteen other states. Its overproduction of energy (which can itself be as harmful as underproduction) is usefully diverted to help make up some of the supply of neighboring states such as California (source). This export includes base-load if the local demand is dropping too quickly for the operating power plants to adjust.
Stored energy also makes a contribution. The sources for such extra energy may be storage sites such as pumped energy storage, batteries (e.g. this), or they may be generation (not necessarily burning fuel).
Lastly, load-shedding is a last-resort. If conditions are adverse (very high demand such as air-conditioning on a hot day, transmission line failures, loss of base-load, etc) then the grid operator may increase the real-time price of industrial energy, or even require that industrial grid users curtail their demand to avoid grid instability. If this is insufficient then blackouts and brownouts will occur, to prevent the total loss of the grid and its most critical users (hospitals, emergency services, communications).
$endgroup$
This is correct. When the demand exceeds supply, voltage will sag and frequency will drop (which can risk equipment failure and is certainly an undesirable situation). The operators of power grids will turn on alternative sources of generation in order to correct the imbalance as soon as it is noticed (often under the coordination of a regional transmission organization such as CAISO).
Grid operators are very careful to ensure that the grid frequency is properly maintained (source); even a few seconds of drift (i.e. a few hundred cycles ahead or behind) require RTOs and related agencies to take corrective action where safe.
In order to understand the mix of energy a bit more thoroughly, it's necessary to take into account the types of generation, which include base-load plants, load-following plants, intermittent sources, and peaker plants:
- Base-load plants are designed to operate at high cost efficiency (not necessarily environmental efficiency or any other measure of efficiency, unless dictated by local laws and priorities), but cannot be adjusted quickly. Examples of these may include large coal and nuclear base load.
- Load-following plants can adjust if they have capacity (e.g. hydroelectric or smaller fuel-burning plants)
- Peaker plants are agile and can be brought online quickly (e.g. gas turbines), but are inefficient. When the base-load plants are insufficient, load-following plants increase their load; if this capacity is exhausted or the grid is experiencing rapid swings in load that the load-following plants cannot keep up with, then peakers will come online and begin burning fuel to achieve enough supply to balance the demand.
Another factor to consider is planning: If an area has consistent winds and enough wind turbines, the wind can be considered part of base-load: It cannot be adjusted, but is relatively predictable and consistent day-to-day. Gaps in the wind are treated the same way as any other shortfall of base-load: first via load-following plants if possible and then with the help of the peakers.
Known gaps and shortfalls can also be handled through trading. For example, Washington State, US has abundant hydroelectric power, and exports energy to fourteen other states. Its overproduction of energy (which can itself be as harmful as underproduction) is usefully diverted to help make up some of the supply of neighboring states such as California (source). This export includes base-load if the local demand is dropping too quickly for the operating power plants to adjust.
Stored energy also makes a contribution. The sources for such extra energy may be storage sites such as pumped energy storage, batteries (e.g. this), or they may be generation (not necessarily burning fuel).
Lastly, load-shedding is a last-resort. If conditions are adverse (very high demand such as air-conditioning on a hot day, transmission line failures, loss of base-load, etc) then the grid operator may increase the real-time price of industrial energy, or even require that industrial grid users curtail their demand to avoid grid instability. If this is insufficient then blackouts and brownouts will occur, to prevent the total loss of the grid and its most critical users (hospitals, emergency services, communications).
edited 2 mins ago
answered 33 mins ago
Andrey AkhmetovAndrey Akhmetov
1,058722
1,058722
$begingroup$
That's all fairly accurate except I don't think coal is very efficient. Wind generation doesn't really count for much in the big picture yet. The NG gas turbines are expensive to operate but can load balance very quickly. Base line plant adjust so slowly that when demand drops too quickly electrity has to be dumped elsewhere. Which means selling it at significantly less then the cost of producing it. I know that our price in Canada changes with the American dollar. Excess power goes back and forth across the border and makes a mess of the price. The whole grid is interconnected.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala Coal is not efficient relative to its environmental effect, but it is efficient relative to its financial cost in many parts of the world, to the best of my knowledge.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
17 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh yeah it's cheap but from a combustion efficiency point of view I don't think it's very good. I believe that many of the plants are being upgraded but because the cost is still low enough it not financially sustainable to run the higher efficiency plants. I haven't brushed up on this for several years, so I'm not familiar with the current technology. I'm pretty sure nuclear is the cheapest to run and the cleanest overall but expensive to set up and people are terrified of it. Nuclear is actually cleaner then solar panels if you factor in the production of the material in the panels.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
11 mins ago
$begingroup$
J-Power's unit 2 ultrasupercritical(mouthfull) in Japan has 45% efficiency which is pretty damn good. Nuclear power is is like 55% I think more of those ultrasupercritical plants are coming online soon.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
4 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala I've edited the answer to mention cost-efficiency in particular to avoid any confusion.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
2 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
That's all fairly accurate except I don't think coal is very efficient. Wind generation doesn't really count for much in the big picture yet. The NG gas turbines are expensive to operate but can load balance very quickly. Base line plant adjust so slowly that when demand drops too quickly electrity has to be dumped elsewhere. Which means selling it at significantly less then the cost of producing it. I know that our price in Canada changes with the American dollar. Excess power goes back and forth across the border and makes a mess of the price. The whole grid is interconnected.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala Coal is not efficient relative to its environmental effect, but it is efficient relative to its financial cost in many parts of the world, to the best of my knowledge.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
17 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh yeah it's cheap but from a combustion efficiency point of view I don't think it's very good. I believe that many of the plants are being upgraded but because the cost is still low enough it not financially sustainable to run the higher efficiency plants. I haven't brushed up on this for several years, so I'm not familiar with the current technology. I'm pretty sure nuclear is the cheapest to run and the cleanest overall but expensive to set up and people are terrified of it. Nuclear is actually cleaner then solar panels if you factor in the production of the material in the panels.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
11 mins ago
$begingroup$
J-Power's unit 2 ultrasupercritical(mouthfull) in Japan has 45% efficiency which is pretty damn good. Nuclear power is is like 55% I think more of those ultrasupercritical plants are coming online soon.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
4 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala I've edited the answer to mention cost-efficiency in particular to avoid any confusion.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
2 mins ago
$begingroup$
That's all fairly accurate except I don't think coal is very efficient. Wind generation doesn't really count for much in the big picture yet. The NG gas turbines are expensive to operate but can load balance very quickly. Base line plant adjust so slowly that when demand drops too quickly electrity has to be dumped elsewhere. Which means selling it at significantly less then the cost of producing it. I know that our price in Canada changes with the American dollar. Excess power goes back and forth across the border and makes a mess of the price. The whole grid is interconnected.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
That's all fairly accurate except I don't think coal is very efficient. Wind generation doesn't really count for much in the big picture yet. The NG gas turbines are expensive to operate but can load balance very quickly. Base line plant adjust so slowly that when demand drops too quickly electrity has to be dumped elsewhere. Which means selling it at significantly less then the cost of producing it. I know that our price in Canada changes with the American dollar. Excess power goes back and forth across the border and makes a mess of the price. The whole grid is interconnected.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala Coal is not efficient relative to its environmental effect, but it is efficient relative to its financial cost in many parts of the world, to the best of my knowledge.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
17 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala Coal is not efficient relative to its environmental effect, but it is efficient relative to its financial cost in many parts of the world, to the best of my knowledge.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
17 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh yeah it's cheap but from a combustion efficiency point of view I don't think it's very good. I believe that many of the plants are being upgraded but because the cost is still low enough it not financially sustainable to run the higher efficiency plants. I haven't brushed up on this for several years, so I'm not familiar with the current technology. I'm pretty sure nuclear is the cheapest to run and the cleanest overall but expensive to set up and people are terrified of it. Nuclear is actually cleaner then solar panels if you factor in the production of the material in the panels.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
11 mins ago
$begingroup$
Oh yeah it's cheap but from a combustion efficiency point of view I don't think it's very good. I believe that many of the plants are being upgraded but because the cost is still low enough it not financially sustainable to run the higher efficiency plants. I haven't brushed up on this for several years, so I'm not familiar with the current technology. I'm pretty sure nuclear is the cheapest to run and the cleanest overall but expensive to set up and people are terrified of it. Nuclear is actually cleaner then solar panels if you factor in the production of the material in the panels.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
11 mins ago
$begingroup$
J-Power's unit 2 ultrasupercritical(mouthfull) in Japan has 45% efficiency which is pretty damn good. Nuclear power is is like 55% I think more of those ultrasupercritical plants are coming online soon.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
4 mins ago
$begingroup$
J-Power's unit 2 ultrasupercritical(mouthfull) in Japan has 45% efficiency which is pretty damn good. Nuclear power is is like 55% I think more of those ultrasupercritical plants are coming online soon.
$endgroup$
– Joe Fala
4 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala I've edited the answer to mention cost-efficiency in particular to avoid any confusion.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
2 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JoeFala I've edited the answer to mention cost-efficiency in particular to avoid any confusion.
$endgroup$
– Andrey Akhmetov
2 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I was going to scold you for not doing a search -- then couldn't find a decent answer! So -- here's a short answer:
First, jet engines -- no. You're thinking of gas turbines, but they are not jet engines (try a web search on "Gas Turbine").
Second, there's not a lot of energy storage on the electrical grid, aside from tanks of gas, piles of coal, uranium rods, and water behind dams. Batteries are starting to look like maybe they'll be practical, eventually. But by and large, when "alternative" energy sources poop out, there needs to be a "traditional" energy source that kicks in. Gas turbines are good for this because they can be brought on line quickly.
This wiki article goes into the grid storage issue.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I was going to scold you for not doing a search -- then couldn't find a decent answer! So -- here's a short answer:
First, jet engines -- no. You're thinking of gas turbines, but they are not jet engines (try a web search on "Gas Turbine").
Second, there's not a lot of energy storage on the electrical grid, aside from tanks of gas, piles of coal, uranium rods, and water behind dams. Batteries are starting to look like maybe they'll be practical, eventually. But by and large, when "alternative" energy sources poop out, there needs to be a "traditional" energy source that kicks in. Gas turbines are good for this because they can be brought on line quickly.
This wiki article goes into the grid storage issue.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I was going to scold you for not doing a search -- then couldn't find a decent answer! So -- here's a short answer:
First, jet engines -- no. You're thinking of gas turbines, but they are not jet engines (try a web search on "Gas Turbine").
Second, there's not a lot of energy storage on the electrical grid, aside from tanks of gas, piles of coal, uranium rods, and water behind dams. Batteries are starting to look like maybe they'll be practical, eventually. But by and large, when "alternative" energy sources poop out, there needs to be a "traditional" energy source that kicks in. Gas turbines are good for this because they can be brought on line quickly.
This wiki article goes into the grid storage issue.
$endgroup$
I was going to scold you for not doing a search -- then couldn't find a decent answer! So -- here's a short answer:
First, jet engines -- no. You're thinking of gas turbines, but they are not jet engines (try a web search on "Gas Turbine").
Second, there's not a lot of energy storage on the electrical grid, aside from tanks of gas, piles of coal, uranium rods, and water behind dams. Batteries are starting to look like maybe they'll be practical, eventually. But by and large, when "alternative" energy sources poop out, there needs to be a "traditional" energy source that kicks in. Gas turbines are good for this because they can be brought on line quickly.
This wiki article goes into the grid storage issue.
answered 34 mins ago
TimWescottTimWescott
5,6841414
5,6841414
add a comment |
add a comment |
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