How does a Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death feature work with Touch-range spells delivered by familiars? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Time to retire the [rules-as-written] tag?If my kobold uses a familiar to deliver Shocking Grasp, do I roll with advantage thanks to Pack Tactics?Can clerics use spell scrolls for spells they receive through their Divine domains?Familiar and touch spellsHow much will Vampiric Touch heal if combined with Touch of Death?Can the Death Cleric's Channel Divinity stack with the Paladin's Smite?I am neither a Wizard, nor a Warlock. How can I get a “full-featured” familiar?Does a touch-range spell cast using Find Familiar have to have line of sight from the caster?Can metamagic be applied to a spell delivered by a familiar?How does the Mirror Image spell interact with the Trickery cleric's Invoke Duplicity ability?Can a multiclassed barbarian/cleric use their Channel Divinity while raging?For a multiclassed cleric/wizard, can cleric class features be applied to my wizard spells, and vice versa?
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How does a Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death feature work with Touch-range spells delivered by familiars?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Time to retire the [rules-as-written] tag?If my kobold uses a familiar to deliver Shocking Grasp, do I roll with advantage thanks to Pack Tactics?Can clerics use spell scrolls for spells they receive through their Divine domains?Familiar and touch spellsHow much will Vampiric Touch heal if combined with Touch of Death?Can the Death Cleric's Channel Divinity stack with the Paladin's Smite?I am neither a Wizard, nor a Warlock. How can I get a “full-featured” familiar?Does a touch-range spell cast using Find Familiar have to have line of sight from the caster?Can metamagic be applied to a spell delivered by a familiar?How does the Mirror Image spell interact with the Trickery cleric's Invoke Duplicity ability?Can a multiclassed barbarian/cleric use their Channel Divinity while raging?For a multiclassed cleric/wizard, can cleric class features be applied to my wizard spells, and vice versa?
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My player is playing a Death Domain cleric. They have the Channel Divinity option Touch of Death (DMG, p. 97), which deals extra necrotic damage on a hit with a melee attack. They also have the find familiar spell from the Ritual Caster feat (PHB, p. 169), choosing the wizard spell list. They were wondering, based around the wording of find familiar, if a touch spell from the familiar can still trigger the Touch of Death ability.
Can a touch spell delivered by the familiar trigger the Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death?
dnd-5e spells class-feature cleric familiars
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My player is playing a Death Domain cleric. They have the Channel Divinity option Touch of Death (DMG, p. 97), which deals extra necrotic damage on a hit with a melee attack. They also have the find familiar spell from the Ritual Caster feat (PHB, p. 169), choosing the wizard spell list. They were wondering, based around the wording of find familiar, if a touch spell from the familiar can still trigger the Touch of Death ability.
Can a touch spell delivered by the familiar trigger the Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death?
dnd-5e spells class-feature cleric familiars
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My player is playing a Death Domain cleric. They have the Channel Divinity option Touch of Death (DMG, p. 97), which deals extra necrotic damage on a hit with a melee attack. They also have the find familiar spell from the Ritual Caster feat (PHB, p. 169), choosing the wizard spell list. They were wondering, based around the wording of find familiar, if a touch spell from the familiar can still trigger the Touch of Death ability.
Can a touch spell delivered by the familiar trigger the Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death?
dnd-5e spells class-feature cleric familiars
$endgroup$
My player is playing a Death Domain cleric. They have the Channel Divinity option Touch of Death (DMG, p. 97), which deals extra necrotic damage on a hit with a melee attack. They also have the find familiar spell from the Ritual Caster feat (PHB, p. 169), choosing the wizard spell list. They were wondering, based around the wording of find familiar, if a touch spell from the familiar can still trigger the Touch of Death ability.
Can a touch spell delivered by the familiar trigger the Death Domain cleric's Touch of Death?
dnd-5e spells class-feature cleric familiars
dnd-5e spells class-feature cleric familiars
edited 6 hours ago
V2Blast
27.3k595165
27.3k595165
asked 6 hours ago
Brendan TriceBrendan Trice
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2 Answers
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Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack
The relevant section of find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.
This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".
The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):
Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.
When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.
This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.
One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:
Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.
Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.
Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.
The counterargument
Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.
It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells
Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.
The find familiar spell description reads:
...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.
This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:
When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.
Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
spell’s effect.
We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.
Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.
$endgroup$
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack
The relevant section of find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.
This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".
The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):
Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.
When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.
This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.
One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:
Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.
Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.
Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.
The counterargument
Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.
It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack
The relevant section of find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.
This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".
The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):
Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.
When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.
This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.
One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:
Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.
Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.
Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.
The counterargument
Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.
It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack
The relevant section of find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.
This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".
The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):
Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.
When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.
This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.
One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:
Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.
Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.
Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.
The counterargument
Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.
It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.
$endgroup$
Yes (arguably), as long as the familiar is delivering a spell that involves a melee spell attack
The relevant section of find familiar says:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.
This line only applies to spells with a range of "Touch".
The Death Domain cleric's Channel Divinity option, Touch of Death, says (DMG, p. 97):
Starting at 2nd level, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to destroy another creature’s life force by touch.
When the cleric hits a creature with a melee attack, the cleric can use Channel Divinity to deal extra necrotic damage to the target. The damage equals 5 + twice his or her cleric level.
This only applies to melee attacks by the cleric. Since it's not specified, this applies to both melee weapon attacks and melee spell attacks.
One example of a touch-range cleric spell that involves a melee spell attack is inflict wounds:
Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.
Thus, the question simply comes down to whether it counts as the cleric hitting the target if their familiar is delivering the spell.
Since find familiar specifies that "If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll", I'd argue that they're functionally equivalent. Thus, I'd rule as DM that any melee spell attack delivered by the familiar that hits qualifies for Touch of Death.
The counterargument
Of course, the reverse argument could be made, too. The familiar delivers the spell "as if it had cast the spell", so one could argue that aside from using your attack modifier, it's as if the familiar made the attack - and thus argue that if the familiar delivers a spell, the cleric is not the one making the attack so they can't use Touch of Death.
It's ambiguous, and could be interpreted either way. Thus, the DM and players should come to a ruling that makes the most sense to them, and be consistent with it.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
V2BlastV2Blast
27.3k595165
27.3k595165
$begingroup$
This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
This answer to a related issue uses the opposite reasoning for the same quote. Just food for thought
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron: Fair enough! I did include "(arguably)" for a reason :P
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells
Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.
The find familiar spell description reads:
...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.
This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:
When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.
Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
spell’s effect.
We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.
Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells
Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.
The find familiar spell description reads:
...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.
This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:
When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.
Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
spell’s effect.
We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.
Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells
Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.
The find familiar spell description reads:
...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.
This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:
When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.
Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
spell’s effect.
We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.
Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.
$endgroup$
No. Channel Divinity abilities are not spells
Forget the "touch" part - familiars can only cast spells, and Touch of Death is not a spell.
The find familiar spell description reads:
...when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can
deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell.
This feature of find familiar only works on "spells". A "spell" is not just any magical ability; it is a defined term. From the Player's Handbook, p. 202:
When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed,
regardless of the character’s class or the spell’s effects.
Each spell description begins with a block of information, including
the spell’s name, level, school of magic, casting time, range,
components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the
spell’s effect.
We know that Touch of Death is not a spell because it is missing some of the attributes described above: level, school of magic, and components. It also does not appear in the list of spells in the rule book.
Not a spell, therefor the familiar can't cast it.
edited 3 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
Pink SweetenerPink Sweetener
3,1631629
3,1631629
add a comment |
add a comment |
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