Using et al. for a last / senior author rather than for a first author Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Is it ethical for an author to cite their own work with themselves as first author when they are not first author?Does anyone have rate the relative quality of scientific papers, rather than authors?When should cited author names be included in the substantive, rather than parenthetical, part of a citing sentence?How do you respond when people talk about the possibility of profiting from, rather than the exciement of, your research?APA subsequant citation for two different studies with same first author and same yearHow to suggest merging papers with a more senior author?Using first name only for university email aliasCan an author refer to work they did jointly using the first person?How to connect distant with senior colleagues in their last PhD year?Letting another author know I'm using one of their results
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Using et al. for a last / senior author rather than for a first author
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Is it ethical for an author to cite their own work with themselves as first author when they are not first author?Does anyone have rate the relative quality of scientific papers, rather than authors?When should cited author names be included in the substantive, rather than parenthetical, part of a citing sentence?How do you respond when people talk about the possibility of profiting from, rather than the exciement of, your research?APA subsequant citation for two different studies with same first author and same yearHow to suggest merging papers with a more senior author?Using first name only for university email aliasCan an author refer to work they did jointly using the first person?How to connect distant with senior colleagues in their last PhD year?Letting another author know I'm using one of their results
Suppose a paper has authors A, B, C, and D. The first author, A, isn't in academia anymore, and much of my work is inspired by the senior author, D. I've also only communicated with author D.
Can I say/write "author D et al."?
When I looked this up, "first author et al." is the recommended version, but I would rather prefer to say "author D et al."
This isn't for a formal paper submission, but rather for something like a blog post describing my recent findings, which I hope will be published in the near future.
citations etiquette
New contributor
add a comment |
Suppose a paper has authors A, B, C, and D. The first author, A, isn't in academia anymore, and much of my work is inspired by the senior author, D. I've also only communicated with author D.
Can I say/write "author D et al."?
When I looked this up, "first author et al." is the recommended version, but I would rather prefer to say "author D et al."
This isn't for a formal paper submission, but rather for something like a blog post describing my recent findings, which I hope will be published in the near future.
citations etiquette
New contributor
4
Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
@AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx
– user106769
8 hours ago
You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Suppose a paper has authors A, B, C, and D. The first author, A, isn't in academia anymore, and much of my work is inspired by the senior author, D. I've also only communicated with author D.
Can I say/write "author D et al."?
When I looked this up, "first author et al." is the recommended version, but I would rather prefer to say "author D et al."
This isn't for a formal paper submission, but rather for something like a blog post describing my recent findings, which I hope will be published in the near future.
citations etiquette
New contributor
Suppose a paper has authors A, B, C, and D. The first author, A, isn't in academia anymore, and much of my work is inspired by the senior author, D. I've also only communicated with author D.
Can I say/write "author D et al."?
When I looked this up, "first author et al." is the recommended version, but I would rather prefer to say "author D et al."
This isn't for a formal paper submission, but rather for something like a blog post describing my recent findings, which I hope will be published in the near future.
citations etiquette
citations etiquette
New contributor
New contributor
edited 3 hours ago
Anyon
8,65023345
8,65023345
New contributor
asked 8 hours ago
user106769user106769
16325
16325
New contributor
New contributor
4
Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
@AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx
– user106769
8 hours ago
You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
add a comment |
4
Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
@AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx
– user106769
8 hours ago
You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
4
4
Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
@AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx
– user106769
8 hours ago
@AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx
– user106769
8 hours ago
You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.
Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.
New contributor
2
I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.
– kcrisman
3 hours ago
Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”
New contributor
This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.
– Bryan Krause
2 hours ago
1
@BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."
Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
The only situation when this is common is if you're referring to multiple papers at once. However, even then you'd probably want to use formal citations in parentheses (like mentioned by LarrySnyder):
LAST AUTHOR et al. have done a lot of work showing phenomenon X (AUTHOR A et al., year; AUTHOR B et al., year).
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.
Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.
New contributor
2
I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.
– kcrisman
3 hours ago
Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.
Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.
New contributor
2
I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.
– kcrisman
3 hours ago
Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.
Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.
New contributor
Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.
Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.
New contributor
edited 8 hours ago
New contributor
answered 8 hours ago
nsinghsnsinghs
57916
57916
New contributor
New contributor
2
I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.
– kcrisman
3 hours ago
Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2
I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.
– kcrisman
3 hours ago
Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
2
2
I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.
– kcrisman
3 hours ago
I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.
– kcrisman
3 hours ago
Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”
New contributor
This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.
– Bryan Krause
2 hours ago
1
@BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”
New contributor
This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.
– Bryan Krause
2 hours ago
1
@BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”
New contributor
I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 hours ago
LarrySnyder610LarrySnyder610
3014
3014
New contributor
New contributor
This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.
– Bryan Krause
2 hours ago
1
@BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.
– Bryan Krause
2 hours ago
1
@BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).
– Michael MacAskill
2 hours ago
I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.
– Bryan Krause
2 hours ago
I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.
– Bryan Krause
2 hours ago
1
1
@BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
@BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."
Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."
Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."
It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."
answered 2 hours ago
Noah SnyderNoah Snyder
14.9k13470
14.9k13470
Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.
– StrongBad♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
The only situation when this is common is if you're referring to multiple papers at once. However, even then you'd probably want to use formal citations in parentheses (like mentioned by LarrySnyder):
LAST AUTHOR et al. have done a lot of work showing phenomenon X (AUTHOR A et al., year; AUTHOR B et al., year).
add a comment |
The only situation when this is common is if you're referring to multiple papers at once. However, even then you'd probably want to use formal citations in parentheses (like mentioned by LarrySnyder):
LAST AUTHOR et al. have done a lot of work showing phenomenon X (AUTHOR A et al., year; AUTHOR B et al., year).
add a comment |
The only situation when this is common is if you're referring to multiple papers at once. However, even then you'd probably want to use formal citations in parentheses (like mentioned by LarrySnyder):
LAST AUTHOR et al. have done a lot of work showing phenomenon X (AUTHOR A et al., year; AUTHOR B et al., year).
The only situation when this is common is if you're referring to multiple papers at once. However, even then you'd probably want to use formal citations in parentheses (like mentioned by LarrySnyder):
LAST AUTHOR et al. have done a lot of work showing phenomenon X (AUTHOR A et al., year; AUTHOR B et al., year).
answered 1 hour ago
neurannaneuranna
2,3641925
2,3641925
add a comment |
add a comment |
user106769 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user106769 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user106769 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user106769 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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4
Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago
@AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx
– user106769
8 hours ago
You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.
– Azor Ahai
8 hours ago